Here are the questions for weeks 1 - 3. Please use the comments section to post your answers. Do not make a new blog:
1. What genres do the following texts belong to?
Voluspa, Volsunga Saga, Beowulf, The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.
Give some examples from these texts that support your identification (for example: "Voluspa is an example of the _____ genre, as the following references to gods from the poem illustrate: "Hear my words / you holy gods' (l.1) "By Odin's Will I'll speak the ancient lore" (l.3), etc).
2. What are some possible features of residual (or "secondary") orality preserved in Voluspa, according to the criteria Ong (1982) advances?
3. Identify a central incident that happens in at least four of the above texts, and discuss how it is both similar and different in each example (remember to cite from the original texts).
4. How did Tolkien draw on the Old Norse and Old English texts in his Hobbit and Lord of the Rings fantasy novels? Provide some concrete examples.
5. Discuss how Tolkien's use of "tradition" (e.g. older literary sources) differs from the techniques and agendas of modernism (see Week 7 in your Reader).
6. What place do the old myths have in the modern world?
7. How does the film Beowulf and Grendel "problematise" the hero-myth of Beowulf ?
8. Discuss what you think any of these texts desire (in the sense of their intention, how they wish to be received, what pleasures they offer).
Voluspa, Volsunga Saga, Beowulf, The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.
Give some examples from these texts that support your identification (for example: "Voluspa is an example of the _____ genre, as the following references to gods from the poem illustrate: "Hear my words / you holy gods' (l.1) "By Odin's Will I'll speak the ancient lore" (l.3), etc).
2. What are some possible features of residual (or "secondary") orality preserved in Voluspa, according to the criteria Ong (1982) advances?
3. Identify a central incident that happens in at least four of the above texts, and discuss how it is both similar and different in each example (remember to cite from the original texts).
4. How did Tolkien draw on the Old Norse and Old English texts in his Hobbit and Lord of the Rings fantasy novels? Provide some concrete examples.
5. Discuss how Tolkien's use of "tradition" (e.g. older literary sources) differs from the techniques and agendas of modernism (see Week 7 in your Reader).
6. What place do the old myths have in the modern world?
7. How does the film Beowulf and Grendel "problematise" the hero-myth of Beowulf ?
8. Discuss what you think any of these texts desire (in the sense of their intention, how they wish to be received, what pleasures they offer).
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ReplyDeleteI am not sure about my understanding of question 6, because I don't know what the word "place" means exactly. Anyway, the following is my answer.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, the old myths always appear in current media. (cf. dragon slayer and vampire) But they are most often associated with the modern genre of fantasy. We can even say that it has the irreplaceable important position in the current literature. Like in The Hobbit and LOTR. And my view could be proved by what provided in materials.
At first, Lewis, the writer of The Hobbit was member the Inklings. The Inklings “valued traditional narrative exposition (cf. epic poetry), fantasy elements, and tended to hold to Christian values”. So of course, he endorsed the idea or must be influenced by it. That may explain why The Hobbit based on Old Norse and Anglo-Saxon sources, especially Beowulf and Volsunga Saga.
Secondly, like the most of old myths, The Hobbit using the linear structure for the whole story. The story began with the hobbit Bilbo and Gandalf joined dwarves to go on an adventure. Then developing in time sequence and causality sequence. From beginning to ending, although sometimes have flashbacks, interleave and supplements, the entire story’s linear structure has not been changed.
Thirdly, from the content and details, we also could find many traces of the old myths. The adventure talked about the main characters tried to kill the dragon, get the treasure. That means the dragon still be regarded as the representative of the evil. He would destroy things around him if he couldn’t kill the person who he wanted to kill. Like in Beowulf, “The dragon began to belch out flames
and burn bright homesteads; there was a hot glow that scared everyone”, and in The Hobbit, “they could see him as a spark of fire rushing towards them and growing ever huger and more bright”. Except this, they all mentioned a dark forest named “Mirkwood”, a magic treasure “ring” which played a crucial role in the development of the story. And produce sibil and wizard. The most important one is they all had individualistic heroism. Beowulf came to Denmark determined to slay Grendel, Bard “ran to and fro cheering on the archers and urging the Master to order them to fight to the last arrow” and finally killed the dragon.
Fourthly，the part “Otter weregild paid by Loki with Andvari’s cursed ring; Fafnir slits his own father’s throat to get the ring, and forces Regin to drag the treasure into a secret cavern under the mountain of Mirkwood. Regin flees. Fafnir becomes a ‘serpent’ (ie dragon). ” in Volsunga Saga, is revealed in LOTR “how the water-hobbit Gollum (once Sméagol) murders his brother Deagol over a ring they have found near a riverbank. Gollum retreats deep into the Misty Mountains and becomes a strange, amphibious creature living on raw fish who obsesses over – and happily murders – for possession of the ring.”
In conclusion，the old myths have the important position in the current literature (esp. the modern genre of fantasy) in the modern world.
Some good points made.
Delete'In my opinion, the old myths always appear in current media.'No an opinion but an observation. But why do they 'always appear in current media'?
The author of The Hobbit was not CS Lewis but his friend Tolkien.
You’re right that “the old myths always appear in current media” is an observation. It just in China, we are accustomed to start with “in my opinion”. I will use words more carefully next time.
DeleteIn addition to this, I have several possible reasons for this question. The fist one, old myths still have the ability to attract people today, that’s exactly what media wants from public – attention. The elements in old myth, like fight between warrior and dragon, the chase for treasure all get people going. Second, put these old myths’ elements in movies or novels make it easier for people to understand the story. For example, setting a dragon as the bad guy or a warrior finally killed the dragon and saved people, like Beowulf. It seems that understanding the intention of the author can also become much easier for audiences.
Actually, I believe that there are some deeper reasons, but I don’t know how to organize it in English yet. So I would keep going, try to find something else to support my view.
Hi Shiyao. A good start here! Myths remains a part of the human psyche because they satisfy in some way the human craving for meaning and significance. They encourage the heroic in all of us, and shows how we can overcome even the most difficult obstacles. In this sense, myths are not just entertaining, but instructive and inspirational.
Delete6. What place do the old myths have in the modern world?
ReplyDeleteOld myths are always interesting to listen to and it never fails to tingle listener’s imagination. It is obvious that old myths still have the power to attract people of all ages even in this modern society where people are more likely to believe in facts.
It is evident that old myths still hold great value in the modern world and has continuously influenced many entertainment industries such as movies and literature. The novel “The Hobbit” is one of the many books that has included old myths in its storyline. Old myths have not only influenced modern literature and modern movie storylines but have also made a strong impact on the modern gaming industry. “Game of Thrones- the game” is one example of a game that includes a mythical storyline to it. Games based on myths or that which include aspects of myths get widely popular in the modern world, regardless of the age of the player.
Old myths surely make a huge impact in the modern world. They influence many entertainment industries such as movies, literature, and gaming; even when the old method of telling myths and legends to children before bed is not as popular as it used to be.
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DeleteI agree with your point Bhavna that old myths still draw people in even today despite modern society’s strong need for facts. Reading the assigned chapter on the ‘Orality of Language’ by Ong (Ong, 1982) I was intrigued to learn about this term of primary orality where some culture’s orality is not influenced by the likes of literacy – written words as we are so heavily dependent on in society today. I realized that Ong's theory of primary orality applied to my own Polynesian heritage where a great orator and story teller is highly favoured, as myths and legends are still passed on through word of mouth from generation to generation. They are usually of an important status within family or a village whom possess an important trait or skill like a Volva would of have had in Norse Religion,particularly wise and skilled in lore, history, prophet and more (Profile, 2017). I find that in many of the organised religions, social and professional settings I have encountered today people still look to the person with the most experience and skills to follow or trust for knowledge. Coming back to your point about people still being taken with the likes of Norse mythology today I feel that it is because of the different interpretations of value and meaning an individual could take away from them as well as their entertaining factors. The Volsunga Saga alone holds so much familiar and relatable content such as the betrayal within friendship and greed in the Volsunga Saga between Sigurd and Regin, the strong sense of loyalty and family within the Volsung clan, as well love, greed, honour and the struggle for power. The Voluspa gives hope despite tribulations and times of darkness and hardship that readers could apply to their own lives.
DeleteReferences:
Religion Facts. (2015, July 3). Religion Facts: Norse Religion. Retrieved March 7, 2017 from http://www.religionfacts.com/norse-religion
Profile, V. (2017). Kari’s Voluspa: What is a völva?. Karitauring.blogspot.co.nz. Retrieved 9 March 2017, from http://karitauring.blogspot.co.nz/2011/10/what-is-volva.html
Ong, W. (1982) Orality and Literacy: the techonologizing of the word. London: Metheuen.
I agree with your point Bhavna that old myths still hold great value in the modern world, and you give me a very good demonstration. As you mentioned that whether in movies, literature or gaming industry，old myths make a huge impact in the modern world (e.g. the analysis I made about The Hobbit in my comment). That’s obviously true. Today, we could find the traces of old myths from a lot of modern industrials. But in my opinion, its influence and role is far more than these. When we talk about “what place do the old myths have in the modern world”, we always just focus on visible and physical things, ignoring its deep influence on invisible and mental things, like modern western values.
DeleteSo I think we may be able to discuss this issue more deeply, or explain the problem from another angle.
I liked that Bhavna brought up that these stories are enjoyable no matter what age the audience is. Which is why I think these myths are so popular now because they are marketable to the general public.These epics and sagas are the basis for our western literary structure. This is where Tolkien’s Hobbit comes in, which takes fragments from old Norse mythology to create a fantasy world that is enjoyed by both children and adults. From there many other authors stepped into the fantasy genre that started bringing these Norse myths and epics back to modern society. I think that these stories inspire us because they are new to us, but also are familiar when it comes to the style of story, such as the hero’s journey. Also there is so much going on in the stories and so many characters that everyone can relate to them. Also since they originally come from orality they are very vivid and stimulates the brain to create these stories right in our heads.
DeleteYes, you have stated the obvious, which is the on-going popularity of myths, but you don't explain why, or what aspects of these myths appeal to the modern imagination. A good place to begin is to understand the place or function of myths in human cultures. Research is needed for a deeper view of this.
DeleteMore and more people are interested in games especially that have mythical characters as people of todays society have an attraction to this characters. There are movies also made that show these characters which to mostly younger audience sets an imagine of these characters and their warrior lives and leads them to idolise them resulting in the increase popularity of this genre in today's society.
DeleteAlso, the use of old norse mythology is somewhat shown in many superhero movies today or include ideas from the old mythology. The old mythological characters/ the heroes are very similar to the superhero's in the movies we see today. Both have the motive of fighting against evil weather it be a dragon from old myths or people doing scientific experiments to create evil like shown in the films today. The old Norse still has a place in todays society through the technological mediums present today. This genre of films and games is very appealing to people of today's generation. Games and movies are huge on promoting mythological stories for their own benefit but during the process of gaining popularity for there film, they are at the same time keeping old norse myths alive in today's fast-paced, technology driven world in one way or the other.
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ReplyDeleteI do agree that old Norse mythology has has been playing a major role in popular culture from artwork to comic books to films. Mainly we see these influences in television shows and video games. The structure of the myths such as Beowulf and Voluspa are set up in way that is perfect for these mediums. Though this sudden influx of Norse mythology popping up over the past century seems to come from the fact that many people are falling away from Christianity and any other religion in western society. With the lack of answers about why we are here or the afterlife, which is in the Bible, many people are looking at the old mythology for that knowledge. I know this isn’t always the case but as someone who isn’t religious, I myself have looked at old mythology as my own guide to the universe and morality. In my case I looked at Native American creation stories and even at some times looked into Norse mythos, but only after it started becoming popular. Even without looking for these myths or researching them we see them referenced in many of our entertainment today. Such as big franchises like Marvel who has a series of blockbuster films dedicated to a Norse god. Then there are entire shows dedicated to vikings and their mythology such as the History show Vikings.
ReplyDeleteIn conclusion, these creation stories and myths brings more interest to us as we fall away from Christianity or any other western religion. These stories entertain us because we want to believe them and believe that there is something still mystical about our world.
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DeleteThat’s AN interesting point you have made there Bella about how despite the fact you may not be religious that you look to old mythology for some sort of guidance in life. I have found that people are generally curious beings who are always searching for answers, knowledge and understanding about themselves and the world. I think that we like knowing that something greater and more extraordinary than ourselves and the world as we know it. I believe this is evident in the incorporation of Norse mythology into popular culture where the characters themselves are relatable even in all their great heroic acts and grandeur with their very human emotions and reactions. With Beowulf it shows in his journey from a youth to a man – his lack of maturity at first and pride in his accomplishments to his wisdom and greater sense of his responsibilities as King with age. Glenn (1991) points out that Bilbo made sense of his place in this world. With Tolkien’s take on Norse heroes he has made this character of Bilbo relatable in the sense that any ordinary person can be turned into the hero when faced with a great challenge. There is this recurring theme in books and media today of the unlikely or reluctant hero. It encourages the idea that we the viewers or readers are capable of heroic acts and don’t need strength as much as wit and facets of the usual honour and loyalty so closely associated with the mythical heroes of Sigurd and Beowulf that are favoured.
DeleteReferences:
Glenn, Jonathan A. (1991). To Translate a Hero: The Hobbit as Beowulf Retold.” PAPA 27:13-34
Hi Isabella, interesting argument you have developed here. A myth believed in becomes a religion.
DeleteIn reading about Tolkien I was surprised to find out that he was a religious man and yet the content of his story was heavily based on pagan myths. There are some subtle Christian Ideas in some of the Norse Myths (despite the fact they existed long before the Christian Word), our lecturer Paul pointed out that because they were transcribed and rewritten after the Christianisation of these places and so perhaps these Christian ties (e.g. the idea of a heaven after death in the Song of Volva and Grendel being a descendent of the biblical Cain in Beowulf) are the result of being tampered with by their writer’s Christian opinions or views. Since learning about Norse Mythology I am left with questions as to where the line between mythology and religion lies. There is so many organised religions inspired by the Christian Bible and yet much of its content would seem like myths similar to that of Norse paganism. The modern world is open to all sorts of practices and religions and I think that Norse Mythology stays relevant because of its openness in sexuality and pagan themes the Bible has deemed taboo in life.
ReplyDeleteA thoughtful extension to your first comment, Lolo. One way to see myths is as dramatizations and externalisations of our inner hopes, doubts, terrors and loves.
DeleteQuestion 5: To begin with Tolkien’s use of “tradition” in his writing had stemmed from his desire to create a historial/mythologised “tradition” from the hybridized dialects of Danelaw English and Mecria English [King Alfred] from 9th Century Britain. Carpenter (1977) observed that he had “a taste for inventing languages” (p.89) that had been taken to such lengths and such complexity, where he felt the need to “create a history in which they [the languages] could be developed.”(p.89) He also noted that “his desire was also to create a mythology for England.” (p.89) In many ways, Tolkien wanted his stories – the Silmarillion, The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings – to reflect his moral Christian view of life and the universe. (p.91) Uniquely, Tolkien’s creation of made-up languages and traditions was the spring-board for the ‘whole mythology’ of the stories he created.
ReplyDeleteModernism and its agendas and techniques takes impetus from a possibly different rationale than what Tolkien was operating from. In Shippey’s (2000) treatise on Tolkien, a contrast is made of the “modernist love of introspection, of the ‘stream of consciousness’ technique, of the characteristic trick of even the simplest of modern novels telling you what the character is thinking” (p.315) and that of Tolkien’s use of “mythical method” (p.315).
Shippey has argued that Tolkien has used this process “because he believed that the myths were true” (p.314). Carpenter (1977) on the other hand noted that Tolkien knew that they weren’t true, but wanted them to be true. It was only after Tolkien had come back from the war and was writing The Silmarillion that he described his storytelling process:
They arose in my mind as “given things”... Yet, always I had the sense of recording what was already “there”, somewhere: not of inventing” (p.92).
Carpenter, H. (1977). J.R.R. Tolkien: A biography. London, UK: George, Allen & Unwin at p.129.
Shippey, T. (2000). J.R.R. Tolkien: Author of the century. London, UK: HarperCollins at p.305-315.
Question 4: This question ponders how Tolkien drew on Old Norse [Scandinavian dialects] and Old English [Anglo-Saxon] texts in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. Prior to giving examples of these, it is first important to understand Tolkien’s drives and passions. Before he had reached his sixteenth birthday he had developed an advance proficiency in Latin and Greek (p.34).3 This proficiency led him to learn French and German, and later Finnish. Notably, Barber (1997) places “old English as in other Germanic languages” (p.117).4 In the process of learning these languages, Tolkien started to ‘look for the bones’ of languages and in doing so came to study the science of words or philology (p.91). 5
ReplyDeleteHe was entranced by early poems and texts, specifically Beowulf and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (p.35) and the Norse tale of Völsungsaga (p.46). This was stirred by his realisation that his mother’s ancestors, in the West Midlands, would have used the same form of English (p. 35). From this revelation it could be deduced that he was searching for family providence or even a historic place to belong.
Tolkien’s later lecture series: Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics (p.138) may have most likely influenced him in the writing of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. He notably draws on the mythological content of Beowulf in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.6 In these stories the notion of the quest are paramount (p.69). 7 Christopher Booker (2016) talks about Tolkien incorporating, what he defines as ‘the Seven Basic Plots’ in The Lord of the Rings: overcoming the monster, rags to riches, the quest, the voyage and return, and the tragedy and the rebirth (p.317).8
3 At N1. 4 Barber, C (1997). The English language: A historical usage. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. 5 At N1. 6 At N1. 7 Glenn, J.A. (1991). “To Translate a hero: The Hobbit as Beowulf retold”, PAPA 17 at p.13-34. 8 Booker, C. (2016). Seven basic plots: Why we tell stories. London, UK: Bloomsbury.
Question 6: This question asks what place do old myths have in the modern world. To respond to this I will take a more reflective position. In my mind’s eye old myths are like a half forgotten blanket that we have used to wrap ourselves in as children. There is a sense of truth, values, fairy tales and religious dogma and oral history combined. It is a story that metamorphosis’s when it is told and retold. In the case of Tolkien’s tales of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings there is a sense of familiarity with the stories, not just because we may have heard them all before – but because they’ve incorporated elements of similar tales from other places and times.
ReplyDeleteIn a way, re-told myths add coherence to communities, social groups, and the cultures as they are re-told. It is and has been a way of establishing laws, controls, historical links and rituals for centuries. The ‘quest’ myth has as much familiarity to it as in Tane’s fishing up of New Zealand and the journey of the seven canoes; as does Bilbo Baggins quest to return and destroy the ring; or, the myth of Jason and the Golden Fleece.
These old myths do not depend on scientific thought or provable fact. They are a social filter process for explaining things that have not yet been established in science. They could also be called a fall-back rationalization process for the masses. Because myths are of themselves situated in heroic sagas and epics spread across time and generations, they will always have a place in the modern world. Because who does not enjoy a gripping familiar story of valour, and who also hopes that there may be some truth in it?