Weeks 4 - 6
Please use the comments section below for your answers.
1. Cite some variations in the Loathly Lady fabula across the three tales in your Reader. Focus on the conditions by which the lady is either beautiful or ugly, and the actions of the knight/king/"hero"...
2. The Wife of Bath's Tale is considered by some critics to indicate that Chaucer may have been a feminist. Why might they believe this? Do you agree? Remember to cite evidence from the text or some other source.
3.Hahn's essay (see critical reader)on The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelleidentifies the motif of the loathly lady, but arguesit has a different purpose than asserting the feminine. What does he think the function of the story is?
4. In the context of Elizabethan and Jacobean sonnets, how can we define "conceits"?
5. Discuss what you think is the most striking or outrageous example.
6. What does Revard (1997) suggest about the relationship between language, sex, power and transgression in the English Renaissance?
2. The Wife of Bath's Tale is considered by some critics to indicate that Chaucer may have been a feminist. Why might they believe this?
ReplyDeleteSome critics believe that Chaucer may have been a feminist because they verified Chaucer's description of Alison is meant to rebut the misogynist views portrayed in The Canterbury Tales and the main character Alison created by him was a “proto-feminist”.
Like the representative figure H. Marshall Leicester, Jr. (1984:157), who sees Alison as an early feminist striving for autonomy in an oppressive patriarchal society. Several critics have investigated the religious dimensions of the Wife of Bath's Prologue and Tale. James W. Cook (1987:51) has analyzed Alison's positions in relation to the sacraments, particularly marriage. Alcuin Blamires (2002:57) has explored the possibility that Chaucer uses Alison to challenge false teachings and wrongdoing by the clergy, comparing her views to those of the Lollards, a heretical sect that held the Bible as the sole authority on God's word and questioned the moral right of the clergy.
Botting Eileen H (2006:265) gives the definition of Proto-feminist: It is a term used to define women in a philosophical tradition that anticipated modern feminist concepts, yet lived in a time when the term "feminist" was unknown. From the book, we know that the Wife of Bath takes great pleasure in establishing her power to fight against men without doubt. She puts effort to draw lines which show the edges of gender lines. So even though she was not yet a real "feminist" we could doubtless see her image of “proto-feminist” which Chaucer created and gave deep impression in literature.
2. The Wife of Bath's Tale is considered by some critics to indicate that Chaucer may have been a feminist. Do you agree?
ReplyDeleteI agree with them. I think Chaucer tried to criticize or at least ridicule the reverse feminist perspective through this tale. Not only because he mentioned women's most desire is sovereignty but also the following two evidences: The unconventional style of dressing up and the challenge to established gender mode in orthodox ideology showed in the story.
The Unconventional Style of Dressing up: From the book of Alchin, L. K (2009:117), we know that middle age’s clothing and fashion, including the Medieval Women's Clothing, like everything else was dictated by the Pyramid of Power which was the Middle Ages Feudal System. Clothes give information about the status and positions of the person who wear them. This saying applies to every society and to all ages. However, only the wealthy and celebrities could dress themselves in fashionable clothes. During the middle ages, many young women were forced to pluck their hairline according to the medieval fashion in order to have a higher forehead and they had to follow the social fashion and dressing’s rules even though these conventional regulations were unacceptable. But we can see that the Wife of Bath doesn’t care any of the medieval fashion trends. In the General Prologue, Chaucer uses some sentences to describe Alison’s dress and discusses how she is a talented weaver. “ Ywympled wel, and on hir heed an hat. As brood as is a bokeler or a targe. A foot-mantel aboute hir hipes large. And on hir feet a paire of spores sharpe.” (Chaucer, 32) From these sentences, we can find that Alison is possessed of great self-confidence. This woman thinks highly of herself and her clothing skills as a cloth maker. In my opinion, we may know from her clothing that she is not shy to shows off her expertise as a weaver. This may make readers believe that she is a religious woman, but we later from the knight’s story understand that the Wife's reason to go on these pilgrimages is not due to religion but to her own desire.
The Challenge to Established Gender Mode in Orthodox Ideology: In the orthodox ideology, female image be praised is devoted, pure, willing to follow obediently and taciturn. But the wife of Bath is the opposite of it. She doesn't talk endlessly, uses words unbridled and uses language to strive for and to show off her dominant position in marriage, family and sex. Like what she said at the beginning of The Prologe of the Wyves Tale of Bathe, “Experience, though noon auctoritee/Were in this world, is right ynogh for me/To speke of wo that is in mariage”. It seems that her biggest wish in her life is to have the same right of self-determination in marriage with man. When mentioned virginity, she repeatedly stress “This is al and som: he heeld virginitee/Moore parfit than weddyng in freletee./Freletee clepe I, but if that he and she/Wolde leden al hir lyf in chastitee./I graunte it wel; I have noon envie,/Thogh maydenhede preferre bigamye.”
Through the above evidence, I think Chaucer may have been a feminist so I agree with these critics’ opinions.
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DeleteI have to disagree with you on your point that the Wife of Bath did not care much for the fashion trends of that era. From what I have interpreted of Chaucer's description of the Wife of Bath I too see that she is very experienced in the world, wealthy and independent; particularly shown in the extravagance of her clothes that like you said show off her weaving expertise. I'm not necessarily sure if the depiction of the Wife of Bath necessarily indicates that Chaucer was a feminist as the sort of confidence and power she had over men comes from the confidence in her sexuality. Her independence and certain characteristics are definitely forward thinking on Chaucer's behalf but the fact that she has had 5 husbands perhaps suggests that Chaucer is drawing on the promiscuity of a woman. I agree with Susan Carter’s point: ‘Despite the fact that the Catholic Chaucer presumably is not using the Wife of Bath to present his own views, he allows her to express radical ideas on gender theory and to tell a tale that demonstrates some of what she has theorized’but I don't think that renders Chaucer a feminist. I say this because I think the intentions behind the theories he has presented like women wanting ‘sovereignty and mastery’ over their husbands could be interpreted as women wanting power for selfish and vain reasons.
Delete1. Cite some variations in the Loathly Lady fabula across the three tales in your Reader. Focus on the conditions by which the lady is either beautiful or ugly, and the actions of the knight/king/"hero"...
ReplyDeleteIn Chaucer’s The Wife of Bath’s Tale we are first introduced to the the Loathly Lady motif at the knight’s most desperate time of need. The knight gives little description of the woman on their first meeting, for example, “There can no man imagine an uglier creature” (Chaucer, 999). The knight also goes on to describe her as old, low born, and poor throughout the rest of the poem. He showed the old woman kindness just so she would help him and once she demanded that they wed for the price of saving his life he was outraged at the proposal. It’s interesting to see a man forced into marriage with an older woman, even though such practices were quite common the other way around. He would rather give up all his belongings than stoop so low and marry her. Once he actually followed the advice given to him and gave the woman control over herself and the relationship he was rewarded with the old woman turning into a beautiful, young woman. It is also important to note that the narrator of the tale is also a woman, even though the author is Chaucer. By using a woman Chaucer gives the readers a purely female point of view of the behavior of men.
In The Wife of Bath’s Tale the appearance of the Loathly Lady leaves a lot to the imagination unlike in The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle. The Loathly Lady in this tale, Dame Ragnelle, has 15 lines that are dedicated to her unseemly appearance. Though she is terrible ugly she is neither old or poor compared to Chaucer’s Loathly Lady, in fact she is fashioned with jewels and sits upon a horse. This shows that she is a wealthy and important woman, which has King Arthur not feeling comfortable with such an ugly woman doing so well. In this tale the woman speaks first to the king to tell him that she is only one who can prevent his death. This makes King Arthur stop and interact with the woman, which he reluctantly responded to her, “‘What do you want with me, lady?’” The tone of King Arthur throughout their conversation is very annoyed by the woman. Yet Dame Ragnelle looks past this so that she could get what she desires, which is to marry Sir Gawain. The knight in this tale, Gawain, is more willing to marry the ugly woman for the sake of saving his king. The main difference between this tale and Chaucer’s is the willingness of the knight. In Chaucer’s tale the knight is shamed for his actions and is punished for it by going on a quest where he happens upon the women, while in this tale Gawain is honoring and saving King Arthur by this act of selflessness to marry the ugly woman.
In Span’s poem King Henry the Loathly Lady is described as a big troll-like creature that does nothing but demand things from the king. She not just demands things from him but she demands very personal animal companions of his to become her meal. King Henry does not fight her on her demands but the poem does tell us that he grieves over the lost on them. In the end all of King Henry’s sacrifice is rewarded with waking up to a beautiful woman. This poem definitely has a humorous tone such as the rhyming couplets and repetition of her demands. King Henry himself is not a vocal character in the poem which plays down his masculinity compared to the Loathly Lady. It’s interesting to see how the women in these tales always has the upper hand on these powerful men, but they are always seen as masculine or ugly creatures to do so. Basically these tales are about the desires and wants of women, though the poems caricaturize and skew this through the lens of men. It’s very interesting to have these kinds of ideas brought up in the context of the time these poems were published.
I agree that it is important to take note that the narrator of the tale of the Loathly Lady is a female - the Wife of Bath. I think Chaucer hides behind the vivacious female character of the Wife of Bath to perhaps carry his own views on gender roles in society at the time. As we know he totally retracts most of his work at the end of the Canterbury tales and this shows that he had some pretty outlandish views on life at the time but was still very aware of the heavy religious practices of his era too. It's interesting that you have made the point of difference in motivation of the Knight in Span and Chaucer's versions of the tale. Chaucer's Knight is made to be a selfish character that is far from the selfless and valiant on in Span's version. I think that this is definitely another example forward thinking on Chaucer's part in that he made a King's Knight disassociated with good virtue and nobility, shedding more positive light on the women in the story.
DeleteThe Wife of Bath's Tale is considered by some critics to indicate that Chaucer may have been a feminist. Why might they believe this?
ReplyDeleteSusan Carter said “The motif central to the Wife’s tale (that a shapeshifting hag becomes beautiful once she gets her own way) makes it more feasible that the Wife’s tale is centrally about liberation from gender role restriction”. Having looked into Chaucer’s background I couldn’t help but take note that for a man living in the era that he did, he was pretty dependent on women financially. In 1935 he was a public servant to the Countess Elizabeth of Ulster where he received a salary that was just enough to cover his food and clothing. He soon married a wealthy woman of status, Philippa Roet, who helped further his career in the English Court but once she passed he was in a large amount of debt and suffering financially (“Geoffrey Chaucer”, 2015). I can’t help but wonder if it is because of this case that he actually was a feminist as he could empathize with women because he was in many ways indebted to them and worked rather closely with them. His openness to the liberation of the female gender and change of expected roles through the portrayal of the rather experienced and independent Wife of Bath cannot deny the connection I have made with these female figures he encountered. For a male living in such a heavily religious era too where the ideal is that the male is the head and women must serve them, his outlook on this would surely be affected. Perhaps his tale’s concept that ‘women desired sovereignty over their husbands’ was a revelation in either his own marriage or serving under the countess. I think he was able to empathize with women and develop these ideas as a result despite them being totally rendered outrageous.
Geoffrey Chaucer. (2015). Biography.com. Retrieved 1 May 2017, from http://www.biography.com/people/geoffrey-chaucer-9245691
I agree that Chaucer does seem to be a feminist but I also think that he was venting in a way of what he thought about women. As you said he was depended on women which in that era was unusual. Maybe because he was under women all the time, that is what he learned about women that they want to be in power. To him maybe that is the technique he learned to keep the woman happy by doing what they say. But I have mixed thoughts about him being a feminist and supporting woman as from one perspective he seems to be someone who is standing up for women and making others realise that they have to be treated equally and at times I feel like he is being sarcastic and saying that if men want to be happy than they have to give up just to get women off their backs.
DeleteSusan Carter (2003) has argued in a broad sense that the Chaucer’s “Wife of Bath’s Tale” is packed with pro-feminist leanings. This argument has been constructed on the idea of sexual roles being reversed in the tale. Carter has drawn on a number of motif mechanisms to suggest that there is power contestation and “gender role destabilizations.” The motifs or traditional story plots that Carter has drawn upon – the beastly bride or loathly lady and the hunter hunted – are broad enough to flexibly cover alternative recital of the tale. The motifs are also sufficiently malleable and abstract to allow a projection of the writers own agenda on them.
ReplyDeleteCarter (2003) admits to having no idea “where Chaucer found the loathly lady motif.” This suggests that if Carter wanted to ascribe a direct connection between the Chaucer and the loathly lady motif but was unable to; she has possibly reverted to populating the story’s unclear providence with pro-active feminist theory deeply seated from her own subconscious.
Chaucer’s source of the motif could have rationally been found anywhere. Looking back at his life story there would have been amply means to have heard similar tales from: his wine merchant father, from his early apprenticeship at a royal household, from his time baring arms for the king, from his diplomatic missions in Europe, from his wife Philippa’s communications of her time in royal company, or from general hearsay in his role as a Comptroller of Customs.
Chaucer’s characters, used in his various works, have the qualities of identifiable archetypes found in numerous basic story plot variations. Christopher Booker (2016) suggests that this ability to imagine stories comes from “part of the mind which is beyond the storyteller’s conscious awareness” (p.553-4). This idea has been proliferated by Jung and Freud, in that much of our unconscious existence is shaped by archetypes.
As opposed to what Carter suggests the Chaucer has attempted to do with the tale – raise the flag for feminism - in the manner of Germaine Greer’s “Female Eunuch” (1970), Naomi Wolf’s “Beauty Myth” (1990) or Eve Ensler’s “Vagina Monologues” (1996). At the time of writing “The Canterbury Tales” Geoffrey Chaucer was in the latter part of his life. In his mind were thoughts of a more conservative Christian nature as he ruminated on the ‘purity of womanhood and ... nobility of manhood’ rather than on “the destabilization of personal power... [making] the bedroom joy more “parfit”...”
The possible rationale for different writers concluding that Chaucer was making an ode to feminism could be grounded in the presumptive reversal of power roles. However, it is arguably flawed to assume that there were no women before Chaucer or during his lifetime, who were able to flex some power or authority. Yet, the power struggles Carter (2003) suggests in the Court scene with the Queen [“the feminization of Arthurs court” p. 335] and in the bedroom with the hag [“the bride secures female sovereignty in the bedroom” p. 338], may have been introduced by Chaucer purely for the novelty and intrigue of the storytelling exercise itself.
Carter, S. (2003). “Coupling the beastly bride and the hunter hunted: What lies behind Chaucer’s Wife of Bath’s Tale”, The Chaucer Review, 37:4 at 329-345.
ReplyDeleteN1 at p. 332.
N1 at p. 332.
Skeat, W.W. (1947). The complete works of Geoffrey Chaucer. London, UK: Oxford University Press at p. xi-xvi.
Booker, C. (2016). Seven basic plots: Why we tell stories. London, UK: Bloomsbury.
N4 at p. xiv.
N4 at p. xv.
N1 at p. 340.
Think of the quote: “Bring me the head of John the Baptist” - Where what you can acquire is based on the power that you wheel. The idea of power is something that is subjective and context laden.
The Wife of Bath's Tale is considered by some critics to indicate that Chaucer may have been a feminist. Why might they believe this? Do you agree? Remember to cite evidence from the text or some other source.
ReplyDeleteThe wife of bath’s tale talks about how the women work and in some ways it seems like Chaucer might have been a feminist as he describes what a woman needs but it also seems like he has not written this tale in support of the women but instead is mocking them and describing that they will only be good with husbands if the husband lets them make the decisions.
It can be said that Chaucer was a feminist when we see the meaning behind what he is trying to say. It is possible that he is trying to put forward that treating women equally makes them feel good and if husbands do this than the wives will be forever nice with them. "Kiss me," she said, "we are no longer angry, -- For, by my troth, I will be to you both” This line was said when the knight gave up on arguing with his old wife and let her decide and do what she thought was right and after this she changed into a beautiful young woman who says to stay true to the knight. This explains that if women are treated equally and given chances to decide than they will be whatever the husbands want them to be.
However, he might be teasing women through his writing by saying all these things about women. He might be expressing that women will only be nice to husbands if they are heard and if this does not happen than they will be disrespectful and disloyal. Also he writes “Jesus Christ us send Husbands meek, young, and vigorous in bed, And grace to outlive them whom we wed; And also I pray Jesus shorten their lives
That will not be governed by their wives;
And old and angry misers in spending,
God send them soon the very pestilence!”. This might be how Chaucer sees women who pray to god for their husbands to die before them and live under them while they live. All this written in the tale does not seem like Chaucer was a feminist but appears to be someone who thought that women wanted to rule the lives of their husbands and only cared for themselves.
Reference:
DeleteChaucer, G. (n.d.). The Wife of Bath's Tale. Retrieved May 10, 2017, from https://blackboard.aut.ac.nz/bbcswebdav/pid-4027427-dt-content-rid-6652318_4/institution/Papers/ENGL600/Publish/Desire_Critical%20Reader_2014.pdf